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hi welcome to the apollo flight control

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room we're actually just one floor above

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the international space station flight

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control room that you normally see but

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here today we have with us to talk with

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us a little bit about what went on

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during the apollo era and even a little

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bit before it sounds like a couple of

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the women who worked in the apollo

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program or in honor of women history

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month this month so right now we're

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talking with estella gillette

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and you said let's see you started in

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1964 huh october 19 1964. wow so that

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was even before apollo was uh yeah was

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flying i think it was sort of just

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in the plans uh the gates had just

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opened here at jsc in the spring i

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believe so

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even jsc was brent or mann spacecraft

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center was brand new you got in right as

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as it was beginning yep so what were you

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doing back then i was actually hired as

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a clerk steno i was hired into the

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structures and mechanics division

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in engineering

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pretty much still the same same place uh

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building 13. okay so it was just uh kind

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of keeping track of everything that was

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going on and

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i was working with

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oh i guess about 20 engineers or so and

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they were involved with uh i think they

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were working on thermals and structures

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and

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that kind of thing at the at the time i

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was sort of on the sideline

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okay well and what now what drew you to

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nasa to begin with was that on purpose

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um i didn't even know nasa existed in

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1963 when i graduated from high school

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it hadn't that long yeah it was a long

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time yeah

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but one of the things we did i was class

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president so we had

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we our theme was children of the space

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age so i was the treasurer and i there's

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a picture of me and a convertible and it

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says

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uh space age along with the other

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officers and it says nasa space age so

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that kind of drew me i couldn't even

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apply for the for nasa until i was

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naturalized as a citizen because i was

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born in mexico i was uh i have to be i

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had to be 18 and when i graduated from

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high school i was 17 so i had to wait a

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little while

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so when i became when i passed the exam

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i came out here for an interview i

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actually had three interviews and i got

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three offers and i took the one in

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engineering okay not a bad decision yeah

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it worked out worked out very well so i

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guess you know you're talking about

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children in the space age and looking at

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that in high school as as a woman and as

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somebody who'd been born in mexico did

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you consider that was something that you

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could have a part in or actually uh when

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i

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not totally balanced yet but

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it was something that

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was rooted in where do you find your

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your applicants early on and so as the

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schools began to

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open up and women and minorities started

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to take more and more of the

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of the technical curriculum then they

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became eligible this is a technical

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place so you needed people who could do

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that kind of work

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sure well and now we were talking

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earlier you know you certainly didn't

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finish your career as a secretary at all

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um you finished let's see you were the

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head of the equal opportunity office and

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then uh deputy of the external relations

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this was such a place for great

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opportunity

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uh

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it wasn't like somebody said here do

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this and and you'll get there it was

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more like what for the others and where

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do you want to go

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i didn't have a degree until

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i was 40

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and nasa paid for for most of it

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but once i had i didn't even need a

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degree to a certain point

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but i wanted to be like the rest of the

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people here which was you know about 70

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percent degree people

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so for me the education was very

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important and then that opened up other

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avenues uh i actually had a career

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as chief of the administrative office

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in the astronaut office i was uh

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deputy director and then director of

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equal opportunity with the director job

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i was able to be i was served on the on

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the selection board for the astronauts

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which was you know one of the highlights

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of my life

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and then

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as i got

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into the eo world for 10 years i needed

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a change so i became the deputy director

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for the newly established external

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relations office at that time

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and then i retired you know six my

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husband and i both retired on the same

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day with 84 years of service together

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wow

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four years that's impressive together

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not just but still yeah i

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didn't think you made it that far

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um i'm sure you got to see a lot of

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history in the meantime

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stories to share lots of stories

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probably don't want to share them all

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but

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i had a wonderful career here i had

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wonderful mentors i worked for cliff

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charlesworth who was part of the one of

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the apollo guys

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on 11 and 13.

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then i worked for george abbey who is

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you know he everybody knows george abbey

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i worked for a lot or with or a lot of

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the people who are now grown-ups like

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mike kincaid i watched them when they

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were young people

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it came in as co-op so it was just a

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really interesting career there's so

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much opportunity there's so much

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just step out of your comfort zone and

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and go reach out to the others that you

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would like to become like and and i have

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absolutely no regrets

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having made the decision to come here

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it was scary when i first came but i

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certainly never felt excluded after a

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little bit that's okay well i'm you know

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and you've seen it you know the whole

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spectrum but what was it what was the

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atmosphere like back when you arrived

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was it i mean it had to be it had to be

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exciting it was it was

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kind of subdued yeah i would say uh

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people were more formal you know you see

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the pictures of of the uh the the white

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men wearing the white the white shirts

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little skinny tie and they actually did

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that the pocket protector they actually

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did that my husband still has his city

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somewhere

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uh so so it was a very

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different environment

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but it was a friendly environment and i

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think you can still say that you know

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it's kind of formal to a point

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uh as we all kind of knew our roles

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i think the biggest difference is there

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was a well-defined

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uh

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um task that we had to do during that

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era

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we had to put a man on the moon it was a

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very well defined uh

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future that we had at the point

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we've done

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well with with the rest of the time but

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i don't think there was as defined a

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time as as that time

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so people knew where they were going uh

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people

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were part of it

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uh and people were very proud to be a

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part of it i think all of those

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those of us who are from that era

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like to claim that we were a big part of

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it even though it was a teeny tiny

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little route that we might have planted

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but um

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worked with some fantastic people

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and it was great to watch the evolution

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as to what nasa has become you know the

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the diversity for me that was a big deal

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having come as someone who didn't look

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like the rest of the people here

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eventually that didn't make a difference

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because i brought something that

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that nasa could use even if it was my

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clerical skills when i first came here

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and i think that's what it's all about

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right what do you have that you can

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you can participate

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and then um

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plug in and become a part of it

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and you mentioned earlier that you were

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on the astronaut selection company i was

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for 10 years because the uh the director

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of eo is the position on the board

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wonderful experience i just cannot tell

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you how

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what a

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i think you mentioned you had a hand in

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selecting let's see yes to the current

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iss commander dan burbank and flight

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engineer and don pettit

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yes and uh our administrator charlie

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baldwin charlie bolden i was on that

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on that selection board on the hr site

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so so

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i can tell stories about charlie

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i don't know

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we're ready for that

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but i'm sure you've got some great

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stories thank you so much for sharing